The ridiculously long politics thread (was 2015 General Election)
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Who with the majority though?

Be amazed if it's not the Tories (so called 'up turn' in the economy, Miliband(!) and offer of EU vote) as i've said before though, i've got a horrible feeling they'll win outright. Might be a blessing in disguise if they do anyway...turbulent waters ahead.

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Who with the majority though?

Be amazed if it's not the Tories (so called 'up turn' in the economy, Miliband(!) and offer of EU vote) as i've said before though, i've got a horrible feeling they'll win outright. Might be a blessing in disguise if they do anyway...turbulent waters ahead.

A blessing in that they will be toast as a political party in the years' that follow. It's also my guess at this stage that the Tories will win, with the caveat that life will become even harder for millions of people.

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A blessing in that they will be toast as a political party in the years' that follow. It's also my guess at this stage that the Tories will win, with the caveat that life will become even harder for millions of people.

Exactly!

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What would life for everyone be like now if Labour had carried on?

What would income tax be now? VAT? Fuel Duty?

What would be the first threshold for paying tax?

What would the minimum wage be?

How many millions would be unemployed?

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http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/

"It is easier to be wise after the event. If we were more aware of the dangers inherent in the financial system, we should have exercised much more caution. But, when looking at the causes of the great recession – government spending levels and budget deficits of the preceding years bare little, if any cause.It is also worth noting that when the recession hit, the government did initially pursue expansionary fiscal policy – there was no panic in the bond market. Bond yields have fallen throughout the crisis. Although debt increased rapidly, there was no danger of a fiscal cliff, like say Greece.

The switch towards austerity post 2010 was largely a self-created panic. Part of the motive for austerity was the desire to paint a grim picture of public finances. The problem is that economic pessimism can become self-fulfilling. A more balanced view of the overall state of public finances in 2010 would have led to less rash policy."

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Between 1997 and 2010.

[h=2][/h]1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

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Taken from 'Austerity - A Dangerous Idea' (Mark Blyth) - to be published soon.

'Conservatives in America have succeeded in casting government spending as useless profligacy that has made their economy worse, centering the policy debate in the wake of the financial crisis on draconian budget cuts. Americans are told that they need to live in an age of austerity since they have all lived beyond their means and now need to tighten their belts. This view conveniently forgets where all that debt came from. Not from an orgy of government spending, but as the direct result of bailing out, recapitalizing, and adding liquidity to the broken banking system. Through these actions private debt was rechristened as government debt while those responsible for generating it walked away scot free, placing the blame on the state, and the burden on the taxpayer.

That burden now takes the form of a global turn to austerity, the policy of reducing domestic wages and prices to restore competitiveness and balance the budget. The problem, according to political economist Mark Blyth, is that austerity is a very dangerous idea. First of all, it doesn't work. As the past two years of trying and countless other historical examples show, while it makes sense for any one state to try and cut its way to growth, it simply cannot work when all states try it simultaneously: all that happens is a shrinking economy. Second, it relies upon those who didn't make the mess to clean it up, which is always bad politics. Third, it rests upon a tenuous and thin body of evidence and argumentation that acts more to prop up dead economic ideas and preserve astonishingly skewed income and wealth distributions than to restore prosperity for all. In Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, Blyth demolishes the conventional wisdom, marshaling an army of facts to demand that we recognize austerity for what it is, and what it costs us.'

The likelihood is that we will continue with these policies in the UK, because our politicians' puppet masters (international banking and finance) dictate our social and economic policy. This will happen no matter which current mainstream party is reelected next year. However, it will certainly be much worse if we end up with a Con/UKIP government. This is the government that gave us 1,000s of public sector job losses based on a piece of experimental software and a 16 page 'report' (thank you Private Eye for reporting this in 2010) - just one of 100s of fag packet, knee jerk policy making.

I'll give it 6 months from May 2015 before people finally wake up and smell the coffee. Any real opposition has been neutralized via. the mainstream media, with fringe parties such as the Greens being predictably dismissed as subversives and Trots. We deserve all that's coming to us because of our own short termist greed and stupidity. I just feel desperately sorry for the younger generation.

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What would life for everyone be like now if Labour had carried on?

What would income tax be now? VAT? Fuel Duty?

What would be the first threshold for paying tax?

What would the minimum wage be?

How many millions would be unemployed?

Anyone?

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Anyone?

I haven't responded to your post because I don't know, no one really knows, apart from suspecting that life would have been a little easier for those least able to bear the brunt of austerity - that I am convinced of.

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I haven't responded to your post because I don't know, no one really knows, apart from suspecting that life would have been a little easier for those least able to bear the brunt of austerity - that I am convinced of.

Look at France, i think thats prob a good indication.

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A blessing in that they will be toast as a political party in the years' that follow. It's also my guess at this stage that the Tories will win, with the caveat that life will become even harder for millions of people.

I think if the tories get a majority, the left will collapse completely like it did in the 80's. If only the greens wernt so dull they could become a huge threat to labour.

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Look at France, i think thats prob a good indication.

No, it isn't. French socialism bears no relation to the contemporary British Labour Party.

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I think if the tories get a majority, the left will collapse completely like it did in the 80's. If only the greens wernt so dull they could become a huge threat to labour.

Tories won't get majority thanks to your lot however I'm confident they'll be in the coalition.

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Who with the majority though?

Be amazed if it's not the Tories (so called 'up turn' in the economy, Miliband(!) and offer of EU vote) as i've said before though, i've got a horrible feeling they'll win outright. Might be a blessing in disguise if they do anyway...turbulent waters ahead.

In Dave We Trust ;)

Conservative majority would be fantastic, let's hope your right although I think it will be coalition with Tories in.

Edited by Shaker Ryan

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I think if the tories get a majority, the left will collapse completely like it did in the 80's. If only the greens wernt so dull they could become a huge threat to labour.

I agree with your predictions. I'm also pretty sure that the Greens won't appear to be quite so dull as an alternative when, not if our current way of life becomes totally unsustainable.

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In Dave We Trust ;)

Conservative majority would be fantastic, let's hope your right although I think if will coalition with Tories in.

If they do, and at this stage I believe they will, enjoy it while it lasts, which won't be for long.

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I haven't responded to your post because I don't know, no one really knows, apart from suspecting that life would have been a little easier for those least able to bear the brunt of austerity - that I am convinced of.

Labour would of introduced austerity at one point, probably after spending shed load more money and the country nearing bankrupt.

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Labour would of introduced austerity at one point, probably after spending shed load more money and the country nearing bankrupt.

Austerity does not work. It is not working for the majority of the people in this country. It will never work as a political solution. I might even come around to your way of thinking when the country's deficit and debt is reduced. Both are still soaring.

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Between 1997 and 2010.

[h=2][/h]1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

51. Bankruptcy.

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What would life for everyone be like now if Labour had carried on?

What would income tax be now? VAT? Fuel Duty?

What would be the first threshold for paying tax?

What would the minimum wage be?

How many millions would be unemployed?

Obviously it's just speculation, but the last year before the 2010 election seemed to point towards a stronger economic recovery than we ended up having. All the Tory talk of cuts knocked all confidence out of the market, which left us with a much weaker recovery - Labour campaigned on the same programme of cuts as the Tories though, so it'd be a question of whether Labour would have delivered the same level as the Tories after 2010. I'm certain Labour wouldn't have come up with stupid ideas like selling forests, selling off the Royal Mail, the granny tax, the pasty tax, the bedroom tax - as much as there's talk of Labour being the party of taxes, the Tories are too but they disguise their taxes as cuts. I'm not saying Labour are a good party with principles but to me they're probably the lesser evil in our political system.

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