Trump wins Noble peace prize.
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125 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Shaker Ryan said:

Oh come on, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. Whether that be Brett Kavanaugh or Cristiano Ronaldo. It's as if we now live in a world where people only believe the accuser and that's wrong, just ask Cliff Richard. That's all I'm saying.

The economy is doing well, stock market breaking records, North Korea issue is being diffused, China's dumping of products being worked on. Record employment. He's not perfect, he says stupid things (like this week on Kavanaugh case) but he's doing what he said he would do and it's popular.

In part I agree.  However as always there are major caveats.  Trump's policies around long term, global issues such as the impact of climate change (which affects all of us) for example.  Trump also piggybacked the North Korea issue - he didn't initiate it.  His record employment also comes at a cost, with an expansion of the very industries which worsen the environmental issues largely responsible for climate change.  Additionally employment rights, such as they are, are being whittled away very quickly.  And so on and so forth. 

Not being perfect is an understatement.  His comments re. Kavanaugh were deplorable and yet again, symptomatic of someone totally unfit to lead the US.

 

 

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15 hours ago, myrabury said:

In part I agree.  However as always there are major caveats.  Trump's policies around long term, global issues such as the impact of climate change (which affects all of us) for example.  Trump also piggybacked the North Korea issue - he didn't initiate it.  His record employment also comes at a cost, with an expansion of the very industries which worsen the environmental issues largely responsible for climate change.  Additionally employment rights, such as they are, are being whittled away very quickly.  And so on and so forth. 

Not being perfect is an understatement.  His comments re. Kavanaugh were deplorable and yet again, symptomatic of someone totally unfit to lead the US.

 

 

Except in the view of the electorate ?

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35 minutes ago, preston exile said:

Except in the view of the electorate ?

...except in the view of the electorate (to be picky, given the peculiarities of the US electoral system, 3 million fewer votes for Trump when he was elected).  'Populism' however is deeply flawed, and it will be America's undoing as it is here in the UK.  Being a Republican president means little to Trump.  This was always only about power, irrespective of party or values. 

Even if Kavanaugh is found to be innocent over this particular charge, his background and character suggests someone who is personally unfit to become Supreme Judge.  Republican or Democrat means nothing to me here - this is all about appointing someone with the correct qualifications, moral standing and background. 

 

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Ironically ,they seem to filling up the swamp led by the swamp monster. Gosh its such a backward country in many ways - I remember years ago Eddie Shah saying he would prefer UK to be the 51st state of  America but wind forwards and I don't think many would agree now. 

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1 hour ago, preston exile said:

Dr Ford has really motivated the Republicans and probably handed  'The Donald ' the mid term elections and possibly a second term !

Possibly so.  I think Trump and his Republican sympathisers who were worried up until now have found something to latch onto (i.e. that (white, successful) males should be fearful) but it seems to be working.  In the eyes of some, the rise of feminism has become a serious threat.  However, the issue is complicated.  Not every woman who is a Republican sympathiser is comfortable with this.

I've no idea if Kavanaugh is innocent or guilty as charged, however Ford's allegations date back some years, they're not new - and what I've seen so far re. the questioning, she was either one of the best actors I've ever seen or she was seriously upset and frightened.  Additionally there are allegations of sexual abuse of other women as a result of his alleged heavy drinking, again dating back for quite a while.  Which leaves me absolutely mystified as to why this individual was ever considered fit for office, let alone appointed.  Trump's subsequent comments were astonishing.  Trump may well gain during the mid terms but at some considerable cost to society, and many women are genuinely fearful of progress (the liberalisation of abortions; having the courage to report abuse etc) being rolled back.  Additionally, Trump has given a metaphorical thumbs up to the sort of frat parties Authorities have frowned upon but some have turned a blind eye towards, in the past. 

Women (and men) are often reluctant to report abuse because of fear and shame.

In appointing Kavanaugh, Trump appears to have gleefully trashed any notion of the US being considered the epitome of an enlightened, progressive democracy.

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14 minutes ago, myrabury said:

Possibly so.  I think Trump and his Republican sympathisers who were worried up until now have found something to latch onto (i.e. that (white, successful) males should be fearful) but it seems to be working.  In the eyes of some, the rise of feminism has become a serious threat.  However, the issue is complicated.  Not every woman who is a Republican sympathiser is comfortable with this.

I've no idea if Kavanaugh is innocent or guilty as charged, however Ford's allegations date back some years, they're not new - and what I've seen so far re. the questioning, she was either one of the best actors I've ever seen or she was seriously upset and frightened.  Additionally there are allegations of sexual abuse of other women as a result of his alleged heavy drinking, again dating back for quite a while.  Which leaves me absolutely mystified as to why this individual was ever considered fit for office, let alone appointed.  Trump's subsequent comments were astonishing.  Trump may well gain during the mid terms but at some considerable cost to society, and many women are genuinely fearful of progress (the liberalisation of abortions; having the courage to report abuse etc) being rolled back.  Additionally, Trump has given a metaphorical thumbs up to the sort of frat parties Authorities have frowned upon but some have turned a blind eye towards, in the past. 

Women (and men) are often reluctant to report abuse because of fear and shame.

In appointing Kavanaugh, Trump appears to have gleefully trashed any notion of the US being considered the epitome of an enlightened, progressive democracy.

Strangely more woman voted for Trump than those who voted for Clinton.

Edited by preston exile

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40 minutes ago, preston exile said:

Strangely more woman voted for Trump than those who voted for Clinton.

As a female I find both Trump and his politics deeply offensive.  Given his background I find it baffling that any woman would support him.  However, Clinton was always the wrong choice to lead the Democrats - someone who appeared to have little relevance to the lives of millions of ordinary US women.  However, this doesn't fully explain why more women voted for Trump.  Incomprehensible to me as a British woman!

Edited by myrabury

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1 hour ago, preston exile said:

Strangely more woman voted for Trump than those who voted for Clinton.

Wasnt that just white women (as he quotes, but leaving the white bit out) and not overall women?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/631224/voter-turnout-of-the-exit-polls-of-the-2016-elections-by-gender/

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/399082-trump-inaccurately-claims-he-won-the-female-vote-in-2016-election

In fact, Trump received 41 percent of the female vote in the 2016 election. He did receive a majority of the vote, 52 percent, among white women. His numbers were much lower among women of colour. 

Edited by R11 BFC

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He just can't keep his stupid trap shut can he? All was a hoax instigated by those pesky Democrats. My prediction, (hope), is that this will come back to bite him on the bum big style as more accusations emerge over time. Even though this guy now has a job for life, can he still be impeached? A pretty sordid state of affairs however you dress it up, surely someone in such a position should be squeaky clean without such allegations seemingly swept under the carpet.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45787433

Edited by RNaj1

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On 7 October 2018 at 14:04, preston exile said:

Dr Ford has really motivated the Republicans and probably handed  'The Donald ' the mid term elections and possibly a second term !

I think you'll probably be right but I'm not really sure why this would encourage people to vote either way. I did see Dr Ford has no plans to take her allegation any further https://abc7news.com/politics/ford-wont-pursue-allegations-against-kavanaugh-further/4427136/ all a bit odd if you ask me.

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9 hours ago, Shaker Ryan said:

I think you'll probably be right but I'm not really sure why this would encourage people to vote either way. I did see Dr Ford has no plans to take her allegation any further https://abc7news.com/politics/ford-wont-pursue-allegations-against-kavanaugh-further/4427136/ all a bit odd if you ask me.

Not really, given the circumstances. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/10/christine-blasey-ford-faces-unsettling-future

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On 09/10/2018 at 22:52, Shaker Ryan said:

I think you'll probably be right but I'm not really sure why this would encourage people to vote either way. I did see Dr Ford has no plans to take her allegation any further https://abc7news.com/politics/ford-wont-pursue-allegations-against-kavanaugh-further/4427136/ all a bit odd if you ask me.

I followed the story closely.  Dr.Ford's appearance before the committee was convincing.  However, her allegations cannot be corroborated.  She made no attempt to approach law enforcement agencies between the night of the alleged assault and her appearance before the Senate.  The FBI  has conducted six background checks on Kavanaugh, all of which have found no evidence of any wrongdoing.

I recently read Orlando Figes's account of the Russian Revolution and It's aftermath.  During the Stalinist "show trials" of the 1930s, witnesses were prevailed upon to make statements to corroborate the prosecution's case.  On many occasions, these accounts were either false or doctored to fit the requirements of the prosecution.  Kavanaugh wasn't on trial for his life but it seems as if those who sought to block his appointment were prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to smear him.  

Trump has instigated a "culture war" against entrenched interests in the judiciary, the media and academia.  It's a popular struggle, although his personal conduct leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RADCLIFFE LOYAL said:

I followed the story closely.  Dr.Ford's appearance before the committee was convincing.  However, her allegations cannot be corroborated.  She made no attempt to approach law enforcement agencies between the night of the alleged assault and her appearance before the Senate.  The FBI  has conducted six background checks on Kavanaugh, all of which have found no evidence of any wrongdoing.

I recently read Orlando Figes's account of the Russian Revolution and It's aftermath.  During the Stalinist "show trials" of the 1930s, witnesses were prevailed upon to make statements to corroborate the prosecution's case.  On many occasions, these accounts were either false or doctored to fit the requirements of the prosecution.  Kavanaugh wasn't on trial for his life but it seems as if those who sought to block his appointment were prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to smear him.  

Trump has instigated a "culture war" against entrenched interests in the judiciary, the media and academia.  It's a popular struggle, although his personal conduct leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

Kavanaugh was not on trial, he was attending a job interview. Dr Ford was convincing in a way that Kavanaugh was not. Indeed his unhinged performance led to 2,400 law professors stating publicly that he was unfit for office. The FBI's investigation was restricted by the White house so as to exclude  testimony form Ford (and Ramirez) as well as alleged witnesses. I would point out that he told multiple provable lies during his testimony which is not what you want form a Judge.

If you are looking for evidence of a show trial then you are right. Kavanaugh was elected to the Supreme Court on a Party vote because they want to gerrymander the composition of the Supreme court so that Roe vs Wade can be overturned. How could you think that his partisan hatred fro the Democrats and Clinton particularly makes him suitable for his job?

The idea that Ford's testimony was false or doctored is the kind of smear you are complaining about. Her life (and that of her family) is now in ruins because she sought to tell the truth to power.

As for Trump - replacing one set of vested interests with another and draining the swamp just to fill another one is possibly no different from his predecessors (although I exclude Obama from that comment). However, the staggering number of lies he tells, the bluster, self aggrandisement, lack of intellect and sheer vindictive malice he displays puts him in a league of his own. It's appalling to watch and why this kind of behaviour can't be challenged by the Democrats is beyond me. The system is truly broken.

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53 minutes ago, exiile said:

Kavanaugh was not on trial, he was attending a job interview. Dr Ford was convincing in a way that Kavanaugh was not. Indeed his unhinged performance led to 2,400 law professors stating publicly that he was unfit for office. The FBI's investigation was restricted by the White house so as to exclude  testimony form Ford (and Ramirez) as well as alleged witnesses. I would point out that he told multiple provable lies during his testimony which is not what you want form a Judge.

If you are looking for evidence of a show trial then you are right. Kavanaugh was elected to the Supreme Court on a Party vote because they want to gerrymander the composition of the Supreme court so that Roe vs Wade can be overturned. How could you think that his partisan hatred fro the Democrats and Clinton particularly makes him suitable for his job?

The idea that Ford's testimony was false or doctored is the kind of smear you are complaining about. Her life (and that of her family) is now in ruins because she sought to tell the truth to power.

As for Trump - replacing one set of vested interests with another and draining the swamp just to fill another one is possibly no different from his predecessors (although I exclude Obama from that comment). However, the staggering number of lies he tells, the bluster, self aggrandisement, lack of intellect and sheer vindictive malice he displays puts him in a league of his own. It's appalling to watch and why this kind of behaviour can't be challenged by the Democrats is beyond me. The system is truly broken.

Senior judicial appointments in the USA are always "political" inasmuch as the incumbent president nominates the candidates.  They are then subjected to the "job interview" to which you refer.  

The 2400 law professors may well have included individuals with differing political views or personal grievances.  We simply don't know. Nor do we know whether Dr.Ford was assaulted by Brent Kavanaugh.  We do know that the allegations were examined again last week by the FBI and found to be unsupported.  

Whatever we think of Donald Trump, it is hard to believe that all his nominees, associates and confidants are rogues, villains and deviants.

The real issue here is that Kavanaugh is likely to bring a morally conservative perspective to his job.  This doesn't mean that existing legislation will be overturned as a matter of course.  My view is that Trump is a populist who senses what people want, rather than a man of conviction.

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I conducted a number of investigations where the complainant told totally untrue stories which later unravelled , CCTV , independent witnesses and forensic evidence come to mind.

Dr Ford could easily be telling the truth but

It is not always black or white !

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1 hour ago, RADCLIFFE LOYAL said:

Senior judicial appointments in the USA are always "political" inasmuch as the incumbent president nominates the candidates.  They are then subjected to the "job interview" to which you refer.  

The 2400 law professors may well have included individuals with differing political views or personal grievances.  We simply don't know. Nor do we know whether Dr.Ford was assaulted by Brent Kavanaugh.  We do know that the allegations were examined again last week by the FBI and found to be unsupported.  

Whatever we think of Donald Trump, it is hard to believe that all his nominees, associates and confidants are rogues, villains and deviants.

The real issue here is that Kavanaugh is likely to bring a morally conservative perspective to his job.  This doesn't mean that existing legislation will be overturned as a matter of course.  My view is that Trump is a populist who senses what people want, rather than a man of conviction.

However, this is the fear, aided and abetted by a President with fewer moral scruples than my cats.  Trump's comments pre and post Kavanugh's appointment, were entirely designed IMO to tamp up those fears and to play to his audience.  The man's behaviour is absolutely appalling.

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52 minutes ago, preston exile said:

I conducted a number of investigations where the complainant told totally untrue stories which later unravelled , CCTV , independent witnesses and forensic evidence come to mind.

Dr Ford could easily be telling the truth but

It is not always black or white !

Agreed. However, if only there had been enough time to thoroughly investigate these claims and to speak to witnesses before Kavanaugh's appointment though.  Anyone might be led to believe this appointment was being deliberately rushed through.....😉

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1 hour ago, RADCLIFFE LOYAL said:

Senior judicial appointments in the USA are always "political" inasmuch as the incumbent president nominates the candidates.  They are then subjected to the "job interview" to which you refer.  

The 2400 law professors may well have included individuals with differing political views or personal grievances.  We simply don't know. Nor do we know whether Dr.Ford was assaulted by Brent Kavanaugh.  We do know that the allegations were examined again last week by the FBI and found to be unsupported.  

Whatever we think of Donald Trump, it is hard to believe that all his nominees, associates and confidants are rogues, villains and deviants.

The real issue here is that Kavanaugh is likely to bring a morally conservative perspective to his job.  This doesn't mean that existing legislation will be overturned as a matter of course.  My view is that Trump is a populist who senses what people want, rather than a man of conviction.

A lot of "look over there stuff" RL! Who mentioned rogues villains and deviants? You are completely incorrect to say that the FBI examined the allegations (again). They didn't. They did not interview Dr Ford or any potential witnesses. They were told to review the information they already had. It took them all of four days. As for trying to "smear" some of the 2,400 Law Professors - really? Do you not have a view about Kavanugh's dissembling and partisan ranting? (That's what the Law Professors were exercised about)

You are right about Trump. He has no convictions other than about himself. Do you think that blatantly lying, bragging and making up stuff passes for political discourse these days?

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Just been announced that his visit to the UK cost £18million in Policing Costs. Be interesting to see how this breaks down because, as I said at the time, his golfing jolly wasn't part of his "official" visit so why should the UK have to pay for a private US citizen to have police protection for a round of golf. If "We" did pay then he should be asked to reimburse the British taxpayer every penny.

.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45820394

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1 hour ago, preston exile said:

I conducted a number of investigations where the complainant told totally untrue stories which later unravelled , CCTV , independent witnesses and forensic evidence come to mind.

Dr Ford could easily be telling the truth but

It is not always black or white !

Indeed. And the same applies to Judge Kavanaugh!

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On 10 October 2018 at 08:34, myrabury said:

Unfortunately this was quite likely, I'm sure she'd have been aware of a backlash. She's made allegations, she's faced some unacceptable behaviour and comments, you could say she's past the worst of it, so why not go ahead now? Doesn't add up. It looked a very calculated move. 

Anyway, he's been investigated by FBI and they have found no evidence to support Dr Ford's claims. She has dropped her allegations. He's innocent and should be allowed to get on with his job without any further doubt of his behaviour regarding the allegation. 

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3 hours ago, Shaker Ryan said:

Unfortunately this was quite likely, I'm sure she'd have been aware of a backlash. She's made allegations, she's faced some unacceptable behaviour and comments, you could say she's past the worst of it, so why not go ahead now? Doesn't add up. It looked a very calculated move. 

Anyway, he's been investigated by FBI and they have found no evidence to support Dr Ford's claims. She has dropped her allegations. He's innocent and should be allowed to get on with his job without any further doubt of his behaviour regarding the allegation. 

He has not been investigated by the FBI and they never looked for any evidence. I do wish you would stop repeating falsehoods

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